How do you grow a marketing agency past the feast-or-famine stage — and keep it growing for almost a decade? Josh Webber has an unusual answer: do it with your brothers. He co-founded Big Red Jelly in 2017 after selling his first company, and has since built it into an Inc. 5000 agency with 33 in-house employees. In Episode 1 of the NoRobots Podcast, Vlad — co-founder of NoRobots and Digital Octane — sits down with Josh to unpack the decisions behind that growth: pricing, hiring, AI, and the clients he now turns away. Watch the full conversation above, or read the highlights below.

Working with family: swim lanes and “professional mode”

Running an agency with two brothers sounds like a recipe for conflict, and Josh doesn’t sugarcoat it: “there’s probably more cons than pros.” What fixed the early bumps was treating the company like a company — clear areas of responsibility, or “swim lanes,” with real job titles, descriptions, and KPIs for each co-founder.

Debates still happen. The rule that keeps them productive: “when we come to work, it’s professional mode, nothing’s personal.” One brother even left for a few years to do business development elsewhere — and rejoined six months ago, reuniting all three.

Cutting the fluff and working from the client’s P&L

Josh started Big Red Jelly partly out of frustration with big-agency inefficiency — vague line items like “strategy” and “creative” that clients pay for without seeing a practical benefit. His fix is to reverse-engineer every engagement from the client’s P&L: even a rebrand has to connect to conversion rates, the sales cycle, and revenue.

He’s candid that world-class freelancers are often the cheaper, more efficient option, which means an agency has to justify itself with outcomes: “everything that we do has got to impact the top and bottom line.” As performance marketing normalized paying for results rather than deliverables, that bar only got higher.

AI, GEO, and the rising value of human connection

Big Red Jelly now works with GEO (Generative Engine Optimization) — visibility in ChatGPT and Claude — alongside classic SEO. Josh’s framing, borrowed from Good to Great: technology is an accelerant. “It’s rocket fuel as opposed to gasoline” — AI amplifies whatever strategy, processes, and people you already have, good or bad.

Prospects increasingly show up with AI-built websites that get roughly “eighty percent of the way there.” The agency’s job is the last stretch: industry expertise, the right inputs, and turning a generic build into something that actually converts. In Josh’s view, the more AI does, the more clients crave a human who understands their business and simplifies a complicated landscape.

Agency pricing: bronze, silver, gold — then the shift to retainers

When COVID hit, about a third of Big Red Jelly’s recurring clients paused within a week. The team responded by niching down to one-time brand and build projects, priced in bronze/silver/gold tiers — guardrails for the sales team, with a deposit (ideally full payment) up front. Positioned correctly, more clients accept upfront payment than most founders expect.

Recently the agency pivoted again, leading with its ongoing “grow” service: two months up front, then a monthly retainer on a six- or twelve-month contract. “Recurring revenue is just such a nice thing” — easier to plan, staff, and schedule around.

Client red flags: earning the right to say no

As you grow, “you start to earn the right to say no more.” Josh’s number-one red flag: clients who hire experts and then dictate every move. His analogy — you don’t stand over a plumber’s shoulder telling him which screw to use. Holding that line, ironically, often closes more deals by establishing expert status.

Red flag number two: payment terms. Net-60 requests, no deposit, or “pay when it’s delivered” are dealbreakers now, even though they were tempting to accept in the early hustle years. For more on picking the right clients in the first place, see the client acquisition strategies agencies swear by.

Hiring when one role gets 800 applications

Both Vlad and Josh have watched job postings balloon from ~50 applicants to 700–800, with the same three or four genuinely suitable candidates. Josh’s filters: a walkthrough video inside the job description that answers all the usual first-call questions, then a simple ask — email your resume, portfolio, and a short video on why you’re a fit. Half never reply, filtering themselves out.

Big Red Jelly is also relaunching its paid internship program: three months is enough to see the intangibles — hard-working, smart, curious — and it doubles as a recruiting pipeline from Utah Valley’s talent pool.

Utah’s Silicon Slopes: edge or constraint?

Being in Utah rather than New York or LA is, on balance, an advantage: East and West Coast companies hire Big Red Jelly because it’s more affordable yet still US-based, and Silicon Slopes supplies talent and an entrepreneurial ecosystem. The trade-off is proximity to deal flow — Josh admits a year in NYC or LA would mean closing “deals like crazy.” His investor-style workaround: watch the next up-and-coming hubs, like Nashville, Charlotte, and Tampa Bay.

Advice for new founders

Starting over today, Josh would niche down faster, build strategic partnerships early, and spend his time on exactly two things: sales and marketing, and recruiting A-players. On the operational side of that, see when agencies should stop, restart, or hold the line and what running a digital agency actually teaches you.

For individuals entering the field, his bar is simple: technical skills get you the job, but “soft skills will get you promoted.” And the Big Red Jelly tagline that applies to any career: “be the best at everything that requires zero talent” — punctual, proactive, communicative, curious. Do that consistently, and you outpace most of your peers.

Find Josh at bigredjelly.com or on LinkedIn, and watch the full episode on YouTube.

Most agency advice sounds the same: niche down, processize early, charge what you’re worth. Tory Gray, Founder and CEO of Gray Dot Co, has spent over 13 years running a digital agency after starting out in-house at startups – and she built her own woman-owned, value-driven consultancy by questioning most of that advice. Her answers to our questions are the kind you don’t usually get from someone still trying to impress you.

What’s a failure that significantly changed how you run your agency?

One of my most cringe-worthy early moments was presenting an SEO growth strategy to an exec team for the first time as an in-house marketing manager. It was nerve-wracking on its own, but what made it worse was that what I was presenting was, honestly, more a list of tactics than a real strategy. Several to-dos, and many reasons why, but nothing connecting the dots in between.

I didn’t yet understand the gap I created. While the to do list was, in fact, well-informed by my knowledge and understanding, I didn’t understand that the exec team didn’t have that context and trust and experience already. They can’t leap from point A to point B without that insight, and therefore I set them up for failure. Or, more accurately, my own, as they opted not to move forward with the plan.

That experience was uncomfortable but formative. It pushed me to get much better at telling the story – not just what we recommend, but why it matters and how it all fits together.

What’s the most difficult conversation you’ve had with a client?

The hardest conversations are usually the ones where I have to tell a client that the SEO work we’re doing isn’t going to move the needle – not because the work is bad, but because it hasn’t been implemented.

I’ve said this a lot: SEO isn’t magic; if you don’t deploy the work, nothing will change. Considering the SEO growth curve, time is of the essence. Waiting a month for perfection really just means you’ve lost a month of trajectory.

Getting there sometimes means a very direct conversation with leadership about where the bottleneck actually is. No one likes to be the blocker!

But I’d rather have that conversation than collect a paycheck that offers no ROI for the client. That sets everyone up for long-term failure and disappointment.

What’s a belief you had early on that you no longer agree with?

I used to think value-based pricing was the gold standard: the thing you graduated to once you’d “made it” as an agency. I don’t believe that anymore. In practice, it often just means charging larger clients more without any real connection to the additional value you’re actually delivering. That felt wrong to me.

I’d rather have pricing that’s honest and tied to the actual work. Similarly, I ignored a lot of standard agency-building advice, for example the “processize everything early” crowd, the “only hire junior staff to keep costs down” camp. Here, I believe my instinct was right. Dogma dressed up as best practice is still dogma.

You have to question what advice actually fits your agency, your values, and your model, rather than adopting it because it’s what everyone says you should do.

What’s a mistake that new agencies tend to repeat?

I have several for this one!

Doing great work and assuming it’ll speak for itself. You can do excellent SEO and still lose a client because they don’t understand what changed or why it matters to their business. That connection – between the work and the outcome – doesn’t make itself. You have to build it deliberately, every time.

Niching down, especially too early. Common advice suggests that picking a niche is profitable. I won’t argue that it won’t, as I’ve seen it work incredibly well. But that reward comes with significant risk, too, and no one seems to talk about that. What happened to the SEO agencies targeting tourism and hospitality, or arts & entertainment, when covid hit? What was once targeted and profitable suddenly became a huge liability.

Not building in room for error. Entrepreneurship isn’t: “try something, fail, and stop”. It’s more like “try something, fail, try again, fail, try something else, and… maybe something will work out?” If you assume you will fail – in large and small ways – and you plan for ways & time to handle that failure, you increase your chance of success. For example: you will underquote a project, and then have to deal with the consequences. You will also over-quote a project, and miss out on that business. It’s inevitable. If you don’t plan to learn from these errors, you won’t survive them.

Looking back, what would you tell your agency at year one?

Honestly? I didn’t set out to build an agency. I fell into it. After years in-house at startups, I was freelancing and looking for what came next, and 1.5 years in I realized I was already doing it. So year one me was winging it more than I’d like to admit.

What I’d say now: be more intentional about who you work with, earlier. That goes for clients and for collaborators. These relationships matter more than almost any tactical decision you’ll make.

Related: doing good work for good people isn’t just a nice sentiment. It’s a strategy, and smart business. It’s how you get referrals, how you retain clients, and how you build a team you actually want to work with.

Final Thoughts

Tory didn’t set out to build an agency and doesn’t run one by the book – and that’s precisely what makes her perspective worth reading. Whether it’s scrapping value-based pricing, having the hard conversation about unimplemented work, or planning for failure as a matter of course, the throughline is the same: question the defaults, stay honest, and build something you can actually stand behind.

Explore More Agencies

If you’re an agency, designer, or startup looking to boost your visibility, you can join Norobots and become part of our curated network of trusted businesses. If you’re a brand or client searching for the right partner, our platform helps you discover agencies, designers, and startups you can rely on. Browse the listings and find the right fit for your next project!

We’ve covered decision-making in agency project management before – in our first piece on the topic, two agency leaders shared how they navigate project pivots and high-stakes calls. The responses were pointed enough that we decided to keep asking. This time, we brought the same questions to two very different teams: Brut Marketing, a boutique strategy and marketing agency operating between Bali and LA, and Superbase, an independent brand design and strategy firm based in Boise, Idaho.

Same questions. Different contexts. Genuinely different answers.

When Rebuilding Is The Smarter Move

Not every project can be salvaged by iteration. Sometimes the most efficient path forward is back to zero – and recognizing that early is its own skill.

Have you ever had to rebuild or redo a project from scratch? What led to that situation?

Dian Andrusary, Partner at Brut Marketing:

Yes – more than once. Usually, it happens when a project moves into design or promotion too quickly, before the foundation is really defined. A brand may already have a logo, a website, or some market activity, but the positioning is still blurry, the audience is too broad, or the product story is not sharp enough. In those cases, trying to “fix” things layer by layer often wastes more time than starting over with strategy and building properly from there.

Changing Course Mid-Project – and Knowing When It’s Necessary

Stopping a project mid-process is a harder call than it sounds. The work is already underway, time and money are in, and changing direction means admitting the original path wasn’t right.

Have you ever stopped a project mid-process because you believed the direction was wrong?

Dian: Yes – especially in product or service launches where the first goal is not to scale immediately, but to test viability. In those cases, we often go to market with an MVP version, a focused offer, and a set of working hypotheses around audience, positioning, and value proposition. Sometimes the market response shows that the initial assumption is simply not strong enough. When that happens, we would rather pause, step back, and rethink the core proposition than keep pushing a direction that is not being validated. For us, that is not failure – it is part of a strategic process.

Kelly Williams, Founder and Creative Director of Superbase:

Mid-project pivots aren’t uncommon, and can happen in varying degrees and for various reasons. For example, we’ve had projects that required drastic changes in the direction due to client name changes, trademark issues, or leadership changes on the client side. Of course, those are all external factors. As far as changing directions during a project because of some sort of evolution with the creative internally – yes, this has happened too. If, throughout the course of the project, we notice that something isn’t working or we receive new information that impacts the direction, we must adapt to this. Although it’s very rare, this can certainly happen, and we’re not too stubborn to admit if something isn’t working. We want to be proud of the work. So, if it becomes clear that we would not be proud of the work, we pause, re-evaluate, and adjust.

The Decisions That Shape Everything Else

Every project involves dozens of small calls, but a few carry disproportionate consequences – the ones that set the direction everything else follows.

What type of decision in your work carries the most responsibility or risk?

Dian: The most high-stakes decisions are always the early strategic ones: positioning, audience prioritisation, offer logic, and go-to-market direction. A visual mistake can usually be corrected. But a wrong strategic decision affects everything that comes after it – website structure, messaging, content, campaign mechanics, media budget, and ultimately how the market understands the brand. That is why we treat early-stage thinking with the same seriousness as final execution.

Kelly: I believe that our branding work requires the most planning, research, and insight. It can be a risky endeavor to start a new brand or undergo a rebrand. There can be a lot of resources invested into it. So, we try to help our clients understand that it is worthwhile to take the time necessary to do it right. Much of the responsibility is in the form of expectation management, and being able to navigate subjective topics in order to keep the work moving forward.

Owning Mistakes: How Agencies Handle Accountability

Things go wrong in every long-term client relationship. What distinguishes good agencies isn’t a perfect track record – it’s how they respond when something breaks.

How do you handle responsibility when a decision made by your team causes problems for the client?

Dian: First, we take responsibility quickly and directly. No hiding behind the process, no trying to soften the issue. Then we break the situation down very clearly: what happened, what impact it created, what can be fixed immediately, and what needs to change internally so it does not happen again. In our experience, clients can forgive mistakes much faster than they can forgive defensiveness or a vague response.

Kelly: As the founder and director of the studio, the responsibility always ultimately falls on my shoulders. So even if my team or a member of my team makes a call that causes a problem for the client, the client doesn’t view that as a one-on-one issue. It’s something that affects the entire business. I try to always stand by my teams’ decisions and support them, but if there is clearly a bad judgement call, Superbase owns up to it, and we adjust internally. If there is good chemistry with the client, we all understand that we are working together toward a common goal. Problems aren’t usually the result of only one decision. There is almost always a pattern or some underlying issues that can be discovered and resolved in order to avoid an impasse.

The Strangest Brief They’ve Ever Worked Around

Agency project management rarely stays within the lines of the original brief. Occasionally it goes somewhere nobody planned for.

What was the strangest or most unusual requirement you had to design or build around?

Dian: One of the more unusual challenges was working on a tennis platform that had to serve very different needs inside one ecosystem. It was not just about making a nice interface – the product had to combine booking, CRM functionality, web and app experiences, and features for both players and tennis businesses. The real challenge was making something quite complex feel intuitive and coherent for very different users. Projects like that force you to think beyond pages or screens and design around an entire system.

Kelly: This isn’t necessarily a design requirement, but as far as strange moments in my career – one that comes to mind was self-inflicted, actually. Working as the Creative Director for a footwear company at the time, I had this idea for a product photoshoot that would require some snakes slithering around the product. A reptile rental business in Southern California turned out to be the solution. The budget didn’t stretch to the optional snake handler, so I signed a waiver and opted to handle them myself. Snakes aren’t really my thing – but people in Hollywood do this kind of stuff all the time, so how hard could it be? Picking up a bunch of snakes and trying to bring out the supermodel in them was a pretty new experience, to say the least. They crawled all over me, but the project got done with no bites. Honestly, I’m convinced the snakes shared my sense of humor about the whole thing.

Final Thoughts

What stands out across both conversations is that strong agency leadership is rarely about always getting it right the first time. It’s about knowing when to pause, when to rebuild, when to defend a direction, and when to admit it no longer works. Whether it’s a boutique strategy team or an independent design studio, the common thread is a willingness to stay flexible without losing conviction. The best decisions in agency project management often happen long before launch day – in the uncomfortable moments where teams choose clarity over momentum, honesty over ego, and long-term outcomes over short-term convenience.

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If you’re an agency, designer, or startup looking to boost your visibility, you can join Norobots and become part of our curated network of trusted businesses. If you’re a brand or client searching for the right partner, our platform helps you discover agencies, designers, and startups you can rely on. Browse the listings and find the right fit for your next project!

Client acquisition is one of the most talked-about – and often misunderstood – aspects of running a creative business. While there’s no shortage of advice online, the reality is that the most effective client acquisition strategies tend to be highly personal, shaped by experience, relationships, and lessons learned the hard way.

We’ve gathered insights from three creative agency leaders who share what’s working, what hasn’t, and how they think about attracting the right kind of work.

High-Performing Channels and Where Quality Comes From

Not all acquisition channels are created equal. Some bring volume, others bring alignment – and the difference matters.

What are your top two client acquisition channels right now, and which one brings the highest-quality projects?

Courtney Todd, fractional CMO, creative director and founder of Umlaut Agency:

Referrals and past clients, hands down. Most of the work coming in is through people I’ve already worked with or people they’ve introduced me to. Those projects are almost always the best fit. There’s already trust, they understand the value of strategic work, and we can skip the back-and-forth and get straight into solving real problems. I also often have people who find me through LinkedIn or my website.

Josh Denberg, creative director and founder of Division of Labor:

We are pretty well known within the Series B startup community due to our past projects, so word of mouth continues to be our strongest client acquisition channel. The founder community in San Francisco is quite tight-knit and we really value when happy clients pass our name along. In addition, SEO/GEO – particularly with third-party references – play a major role. Many clients often find us by searching online or asking tools like ChatGPT or Claude for top ad agencies for Series B startups and B2B tech companies. Because of that, we make an effort to stay current, even as things evolve quickly in that space.

Vincent Romeo, creative director and owner of Romeo + Co:

My current acquisition channels include reaching out to my existing contact list, sending email blasts, referrals, and social media. Out of all of these, referrals tend to bring in the highest-quality projects, as they come with a level of trust and familiarity that makes the working relationship much smoother from the start.

What Client Acquisition Strategies Didn’t Work – and Why It Matters

Failure is an underrated teacher in client acquisition. Often, what doesn’t work tells you more about your business than what does.

What have you tried for client acquisition that didn’t work, and what did you learn from it?

Courtney: Cold email never really clicked for me. I know it works for some people, but it’s never felt aligned with how I build relationships or how my clients make decisions. The work I do usually starts with trust and context, and cold outreach just doesn’t create that in a meaningful way

Josh: We tried direct cold calling, and it ended up being a big failure for us. We hired someone dedicated to it and were doing 10 or more intro calls a month with potential clients for almost a year, but it ultimately led to nothing. It was a valuable lesson in understanding that not every traditional outreach method fits every business, and that our efforts are better spent on channels that align more naturally with how our clients prefer to engage.

Vincent: I once tried to reposition my approach by introducing a completely new system, but it failed pretty badly. It was a useful learning experience, though – it showed me that not every change or new strategy will resonate, and that it’s important to test ideas carefully and stay grounded in what already works.

The Clients Worth Saying No To

Client acquisition isn’t just about getting more work – it’s about getting the right work. Knowing what to avoid is just as important as knowing what to pursue.

What type of projects or clients do you actively avoid today?

Courtney: I tend to avoid companies that don’t align with my values, as that usually creates friction over time. I’m also cautious with clients who want pure execution without taking a step back to think strategically, because that often leads to short-term fixes rather than meaningful results. Similarly, teams where everything is reactive and no one truly owns decisions can be challenging to work with. I’ve learned the hard way that even strong work tends to fall apart in those kinds of environments, no matter how good the initial output is.

Josh: Our work in the Series B tech space is our bread and butter, so we rarely turn down projects in that area. That said, we do actively avoid working with clients who aren’t respectful or enjoyable to collaborate with. No matter the industry, we believe it’s important to work with people we genuinely respect – life’s too short to spend time on difficult or negative working relationships.

Vincent: I’ve had strong success in areas like retail packaging and sports branding, and I know where my strengths lie. Right now, I see a lot of opportunity in toys, games, and outdoor products, but accessing the right contacts in that space has been a challenge. Rather than avoiding specific types outright, I’m more focused on finding better entry points into the industries where I know there’s demand.

Time vs. Impact: What Wasn’t Worth It

Some efforts feel productive but don’t actually move the business forward. Recognizing these early can save months – or years – of wasted energy.

What marketing effort took the most time but produced the least real business impact?

Courtney: Probably organic social when it’s treated as the main ROI driver. It’s great for staying visible, building credibility, and keeping your brand top of mind, but on its own, it hasn’t consistently translated into high-quality leads. I’ve found it works much better as a supporting channel that reinforces other efforts, rather than being relied on as the primary growth engine.

Josh: Organized, formal pitches and RFPs are actually the least productive and the biggest waste of time. Tons of work and often even if we “win” the budgets are rarely worth it. That said, we still consider pitches selectively and are open to paid pitch opportunities, which feel much more balanced and worthwhile. At this point, we’ve moved away from unpaid pitches unless the opportunity is truly exceptional and aligns strongly with our goals.

Vincent: Promotional mailings and online advertising have taken a significant amount of time and effort, but haven’t delivered meaningful business results for me. While they can have some visibility benefits, they haven’t translated into the kind of high-quality leads or projects that justify the investment.

When Reputation Matters More Than Budget

Sometimes, the right project isn’t the highest-paying one. Strategic trade-offs can play a role in long-term growth – if approached carefully.

Have you ever taken a project for its reputational value despite a low budget?

Courtney: Yes, but it’s usually because I believe in the person or what they’re building. Some of those projects have turned into long-term relationships or opened doors I wouldn’t have expected. It’s never about exposure for the sake of it. There has to be real potential or alignment behind the decision.

Josh: Of course. We look at reputational value in terms of both the creative potential of the campaign and the growth trajectory of the brand. If a project has a smaller budget but offers strong creative opportunities, or if we see significant upside in the company’s future, we’re open to it. We tend to evaluate startups a bit like investors – considering the product, the team, and the long-term potential – so we’re sometimes willing to accept less in the short term if we believe the long-term payoff could be meaningful.

Vincent: Earlier in my career, I did take on projects primarily for their reputational value, even if the budget was low. At that stage, it made sense as a way to build a portfolio and credibility. More recently, though, I’ve moved away from that approach and focus more on projects that are both creatively and financially worthwhile.

Final Thoughts

If there’s one consistent thread across these perspectives, it’s this: the best client acquisition strategies are built on trust, alignment, and clarity – not just activity.

Referrals outperform cold outreach. Fit matters more than volume. And not every “growth tactic” is worth your time.

Instead of chasing every possible lead, the smarter approach is to double down on relationships, stay visible in the right places, be selective about who you work with, and continuously refine based on what actually leads to great work.

Because at the end of the day, the goal isn’t just more clients – it’s better ones.

Explore More Agencies

If you’re an agency, designer, or startup looking to boost your visibility, you can join Norobots and become part of our curated network of trusted businesses. If you’re a brand or client searching for the right partner, our platform helps you discover agencies, designers, and startups you can rely on. Browse the listings and find the right fit for your next project!

Good brand identity design often looks effortless from the outside. But when you talk to someone like Wells Collins, you’re reminded how much work actually sits beneath the surface. Wells is a Denver-based award-winning brand designer known for his typographic work and custom wordmarks. Over the years, he’s carved out a space working with startups, helping them build brand identities that feel clear, flexible, and actually usable from day one.

What stands out isn’t just the style of his work – it’s how he gets there. Every project starts the same way: away from the screen. Sketching, testing, exploring, and then refining. Because for Collins, strong brand identity design isn’t about landing on a good idea quickly – it’s about earning the right one through volume, exploration, and restraint.

We spoke to Wells about how his thinking has evolved, how he approaches positioning, and why staying a little uncomfortable is part of the process.

What do you want your brand to be known for – and what do you actively avoid being known for?

Quality, first and foremost. Design has been a passion for a long time, never just a job. While many senior designers eventually migrate into director roles, I’ve refused to give up the tactile process. I’m still obsessed with the craft. Clients often find me because of the hand-drawn quality of the work. Every project starts with a pencil and paper, and I believe deeply that quantity leads to quality when it comes to ideation. The more ideas you throw at the wall, the more informed the final solution will be.

As for what I’m actively against: I don’t want to be a generalist who does everything for everyone, a production artist pushing out templated work, or the cheapest option in the room. If you’re shopping on price alone, I’m probably not your guy.

How has your positioning changed since you started?

I started my career as a web designer but pivoted to brand design early on because I loved designing logos, building visual systems, and working on packaging. Over the past eight-plus years working primarily with startups, I’ve learned what it actually takes to get a brand up and running. Smart, scrappy, and built to last. Very rarely does a small business need a 500-page “brand bible.” I pride myself on building modular systems that are scalable and flexible without the bloat.

These days, I typically include a homepage design as part of my brand offerings to help clients hit the ground running. So in a way, I’ve come full circle back to where I started. Just with a much sharper point of view.

What type of work best represents your brand today?

My work tends to skew typographic. I started hand-lettering as a way to step away from the screen, and it became a passion that bleeds into almost everything I do now. I try to inject hand-drawn elements wherever they make sense. Custom wordmarks have become a real staple, both creatively and as a core part of my business. If there’s one thing that feels most me, it’s a carefully crafted, hand-drawn wordmark with a distinct personality.

Have you ever niched down – or deliberately stayed broad? Why?

Deliberately broad. A few historical figures I keep coming back to are two iconic design duos: Massimo and Lella Vignelli, and Charles and Ray Eames. What always struck me about them wasn’t just the quality of their work, it was the range. Airline brands, subway signage, furniture, clothing, architecture. They moved fluidly across disciplines because they treated every project as a problem worth solving strategically.

These days the common advice is to niche down, find your lane, specialize. And while becoming an expert matters, wearing blinders is a fast track to creative stagnation. I’d rather keep taking on new challenges, working with new people, and staying slightly uncomfortable. If you’re not uncomfortable, you’re not growing.

What differentiates you that clients don’t immediately see?

Most people get a feel for the aesthetic from the portfolio, but what they don’t always see is the depth of process behind it. After a kickoff call and a thorough creative brief, I put the screen away and go analog. I’ll sketch logo and identity concepts literally hundreds of times before narrowing down to my top directions. It’s not just a warm-up. It’s how I make sure I’ve truly exhausted the concept before committing to a solution. That thoroughness is what lets me deliver quality work consistently, and it’s something clients tend to feel in the final result even if they can’t always name why.

Final Thoughts

Talking to Wells, one thing comes through clearly: good work takes time. Not in a slow-for-the-sake-of-it way, but in a considered, intentional way. The kind that gives ideas room to develop and avoids jumping to the first solution.

His approach to brand identity design is grounded in a few simple ideas: start with exploration, keep things flexible and practical for real-world use, focus on clarity over complexity, and stay close to the craft, even as you grow. It’s a perspective that feels especially relevant right now. With so many tools promising faster outputs, it’s easy to forget that the strength of a brand often comes from the thinking behind it.

And sometimes, that thinking starts with something as simple as pencil and paper.

Explore More Brand Identity Design Professionals

If you’re an agency, designer, or startup looking to boost your visibility, you can join Norobots and become part of our curated network of trusted businesses. If you’re a brand or client searching for the right partner, our platform helps you discover agencies, designers, and startups you can rely on. Browse the listings and find the right fit for your next project!