How 3 Brothers Built an Inc. 5000 Agency — Josh Webber, Big Red Jelly
How do you grow a marketing agency past the feast-or-famine stage — and keep it growing for almost a decade? Josh Webber has an unusual answer: do it with your brothers. He co-founded Big Red Jelly in 2017 after selling his first company, and has since built it into an Inc. 5000 agency with 33 in-house employees. In Episode 1 of the NoRobots Podcast, Vlad — co-founder of NoRobots and Digital Octane — sits down with Josh to unpack the decisions behind that growth: pricing, hiring, AI, and the clients he now turns away. Watch the full conversation above, or read the highlights below.
Working with family: swim lanes and “professional mode”
Running an agency with two brothers sounds like a recipe for conflict, and Josh doesn’t sugarcoat it: “there’s probably more cons than pros.” What fixed the early bumps was treating the company like a company — clear areas of responsibility, or “swim lanes,” with real job titles, descriptions, and KPIs for each co-founder.
Debates still happen. The rule that keeps them productive: “when we come to work, it’s professional mode, nothing’s personal.” One brother even left for a few years to do business development elsewhere — and rejoined six months ago, reuniting all three.
Cutting the fluff and working from the client’s P&L
Josh started Big Red Jelly partly out of frustration with big-agency inefficiency — vague line items like “strategy” and “creative” that clients pay for without seeing a practical benefit. His fix is to reverse-engineer every engagement from the client’s P&L: even a rebrand has to connect to conversion rates, the sales cycle, and revenue.
He’s candid that world-class freelancers are often the cheaper, more efficient option, which means an agency has to justify itself with outcomes: “everything that we do has got to impact the top and bottom line.” As performance marketing normalized paying for results rather than deliverables, that bar only got higher.
AI, GEO, and the rising value of human connection
Big Red Jelly now works with GEO (Generative Engine Optimization) — visibility in ChatGPT and Claude — alongside classic SEO. Josh’s framing, borrowed from Good to Great: technology is an accelerant. “It’s rocket fuel as opposed to gasoline” — AI amplifies whatever strategy, processes, and people you already have, good or bad.
Prospects increasingly show up with AI-built websites that get roughly “eighty percent of the way there.” The agency’s job is the last stretch: industry expertise, the right inputs, and turning a generic build into something that actually converts. In Josh’s view, the more AI does, the more clients crave a human who understands their business and simplifies a complicated landscape.
Agency pricing: bronze, silver, gold — then the shift to retainers
When COVID hit, about a third of Big Red Jelly’s recurring clients paused within a week. The team responded by niching down to one-time brand and build projects, priced in bronze/silver/gold tiers — guardrails for the sales team, with a deposit (ideally full payment) up front. Positioned correctly, more clients accept upfront payment than most founders expect.
Recently the agency pivoted again, leading with its ongoing “grow” service: two months up front, then a monthly retainer on a six- or twelve-month contract. “Recurring revenue is just such a nice thing” — easier to plan, staff, and schedule around.
Client red flags: earning the right to say no
As you grow, “you start to earn the right to say no more.” Josh’s number-one red flag: clients who hire experts and then dictate every move. His analogy — you don’t stand over a plumber’s shoulder telling him which screw to use. Holding that line, ironically, often closes more deals by establishing expert status.
Red flag number two: payment terms. Net-60 requests, no deposit, or “pay when it’s delivered” are dealbreakers now, even though they were tempting to accept in the early hustle years. For more on picking the right clients in the first place, see the client acquisition strategies agencies swear by.
Hiring when one role gets 800 applications
Both Vlad and Josh have watched job postings balloon from ~50 applicants to 700–800, with the same three or four genuinely suitable candidates. Josh’s filters: a walkthrough video inside the job description that answers all the usual first-call questions, then a simple ask — email your resume, portfolio, and a short video on why you’re a fit. Half never reply, filtering themselves out.
Big Red Jelly is also relaunching its paid internship program: three months is enough to see the intangibles — hard-working, smart, curious — and it doubles as a recruiting pipeline from Utah Valley’s talent pool.
Utah’s Silicon Slopes: edge or constraint?
Being in Utah rather than New York or LA is, on balance, an advantage: East and West Coast companies hire Big Red Jelly because it’s more affordable yet still US-based, and Silicon Slopes supplies talent and an entrepreneurial ecosystem. The trade-off is proximity to deal flow — Josh admits a year in NYC or LA would mean closing “deals like crazy.” His investor-style workaround: watch the next up-and-coming hubs, like Nashville, Charlotte, and Tampa Bay.
Advice for new founders
Starting over today, Josh would niche down faster, build strategic partnerships early, and spend his time on exactly two things: sales and marketing, and recruiting A-players. On the operational side of that, see when agencies should stop, restart, or hold the line and what running a digital agency actually teaches you.
For individuals entering the field, his bar is simple: technical skills get you the job, but “soft skills will get you promoted.” And the Big Red Jelly tagline that applies to any career: “be the best at everything that requires zero talent” — punctual, proactive, communicative, curious. Do that consistently, and you outpace most of your peers.
Find Josh at bigredjelly.com or on LinkedIn, and watch the full episode on YouTube.